tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post2250510334135455351..comments2024-03-22T19:24:38.860+01:00Comments on Traditional Taekwondo Ramblings: Keys to understanding PoomsaeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-49498259503676192492015-05-12T04:14:34.874+02:002015-05-12T04:14:34.874+02:00yeah , i am steeped in early myths, legends, arche...yeah , i am steeped in early myths, legends, archeo- astronomy, and bible history. not from a belief standpoint, but i am always interested in how things came to be down through history. this helps with present day TKD and martial arts in general. <br />with regard to the tai chi, yes you are right but i have found that most instructors never really teach the combat oriented art. while there are many health benefits of it, most of those (meridian, chi flow) are not really shown either. <br />i came to the CMA with a background in applied acupuncture (kyushu/dim mak) so that many of the applications that involving those were easier for me to understand, the big difference was understanding the criticality of structure-the chief difference between the "internal" arts and much of Shaolin in general. <br />so yes, they are a great help in understanding. in truth though Xin-Yi is the closest in strategy and spirit to TKD. <br />richardchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03329168045786232138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-49078348975900485992015-05-12T02:08:29.709+02:002015-05-12T02:08:29.709+02:00It is funny you mention the bible because Nat Geo ...It is funny you mention the bible because Nat Geo did a great presentation a few years ago where they assert that part of it is a fantastical attempt to rewrite a history that people were unhappy with (http://natgeotv.com.au/tv/bibles-buried-secrets/). A good watch if you are a history buff regardless of beliefs. To me it somewhat compares to the 2000 year myth business in TKD.<br /><br />The disdain for Wushu within Kung Fu circles is similar to the one found whithin TKD from some of us. I have heard this from multiple sources from the Kung Fu community.<br /><br />I agree that a lot of what you can make work in the real world is what counts. After all, I think we are trying to find that within our forms and if we cannot find it, at least improve by calling out and creating or reinterpreting forms to be more practical.<br /><br />Last note: Tai Chi, although internal, is chock-full of great grappling and offensive stuff (you probably know this anyways) as it has been demonstrated as both exercise and combat to me by my friend. He practices Tai Chi Northern Praying Mantis & Tai Chi. I find that their hand techniques (the style/art in general) release and clarify things we do in TKD that we normally don't understand. It is a beautiful compliment to what we've learned.<br /><br />Starfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533438139228680540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-61760924739692355002015-05-12T01:52:48.359+02:002015-05-12T01:52:48.359+02:00When my friend returns from his Sifu after his vac...When my friend returns from his Sifu after his vacation I will have more time to go over my assertions from a CMA standpoint. I would enjoy emailing you some of those thoughts in the future.<br /><br />I am also trying to avoid writing a full-fledged essay regarding the topic of CMA influence within TKD Poomsae as my first few drafts have gone all over the place. There is way too much here to ignore. I only wish that Koreans would study and publish papers that elucidate common martial heritage rather than the 2000 year myth. Why are foreigners like us more open to the truth in this context? I boggles my mind.Starfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533438139228680540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-76548695050973158732015-05-11T20:39:55.197+02:002015-05-11T20:39:55.197+02:00Great points Richard :-)Great points Richard :-)Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-28463264370758488272015-05-11T20:39:18.457+02:002015-05-11T20:39:18.457+02:00I would really love to hear more and learn more ab...I would really love to hear more and learn more about the Chinese applications to the movements:-)Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-71259024396323457112015-05-11T01:56:32.033+02:002015-05-11T01:56:32.033+02:00while i can largely agree with most of the above, ...while i can largely agree with most of the above, not everything is as clear cut. i have often felt that the Kukki forms were a mashing together of samples taken from other forms with not a lot of thought given to alternate meanings other than the basics and what kinda looked good. getting everyone to agree to what is in and what is out is never an easy task--took an Roman emperor to knock a few heads around to get the clergy at Nicea to agree on the bible. furthermore it is rare to get something coherent and very functional as well (something about a camel is a horse designed by a committee) it can happen. i studied Toyama Ryu sword, a WWII style that was made in exactly that way, and it works. <br />with regard to the CMA styles. i have found them (among other styles) to be very informative as well, but one has to approach with caution. the Wushu stuff has pervaded so much of it that one has to actively work to avoid it. it is very much similar to the way the TKD sport has seeped into so much of what we regard the TKD self defense framework to be.<br />while in truth, most of my experience has been in internal stuff (tai-chi, xin-yi,baqua) i have seen it there as well. i have heard really fanciful explanations of moves that really make no sense-take a look at a Tai Chi sword form. if you ever used a sword, you would be hard pressed to figure out just what the hell they are doing. <br /><br />so, the reality is, the reality that you can make work in the real world. most of us have not had the years of intense training that the Shaolin monks have, so maybe copying their moves and explanations doesn't help the computer programmer who can train two days a week for an hour. or even and old man like me with two artificial hips. richardchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03329168045786232138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-57745085440301387522015-05-08T20:01:00.045+02:002015-05-08T20:01:00.045+02:00Ørjan this is a nice summary of Iain's podcast...Ørjan this is a nice summary of Iain's podcast & his book (for those who haven't read Bunkai Jutsu - Read It! :-D ).<br /><br />I also found that our TKD patterns (mostly Taegeuk & Yudanja, less so other sets) do not really conform to the rules as strictly as perhaps intended and I believe it is because they were made more recently with people of different Martial backgrounds.<br /><br />In my journey I found that a lot of sequences and their techniques that appeared to contradict with Iain's rules were better understood from a CMA context. Moves that involve what appear to be random jumps and spinning kicks (Cheonkwon, for example) appear frequently in CMA forms and have interesting applications that can relate to using body weight and sudden movements to disarm, take the back and overpower what might be a similarly or even slightly larger opponent. Whilst I cannot say for certain that the Poomsae creators would have understood all contexts it is still a logical assertion based on the fact that not all Masters came from a strict Karate lineage.<br /><br />Whilst I haven't formally penned my personal thoughts on the matter just yet, I can safely state that Chil Jang, Pal Jang & Cheonkwon contain a high percentage of CMA sequences & techniques lifted from well known and covered patterns found in various styles of Kung Fu. (I'm currently focusing my studies on these patterns, but there are other techniques in Yudanja Poomsae).<br /><br />My point is this: if Iain's rules don't fit then look at CMA. CMA (with the exception of Wushu) is more concerned with SD and I can say based on experience in training with my friend that Kung Fu contains explainations for stuff that looks ludicrous.Starfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533438139228680540noreply@blogger.com