tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post3599989938426400379..comments2024-03-22T19:24:38.860+01:00Comments on Traditional Taekwondo Ramblings: Why Taekwondo history research matterUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-36090396406914383182017-01-01T00:37:22.280+01:002017-01-01T00:37:22.280+01:00Because in a way we already are? Albeit a Korean o...Because in a way we already are? Albeit a Korean organisation or reinterpretation of karate. Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-58417257331208692272016-12-15T14:46:31.052+01:002016-12-15T14:46:31.052+01:00Hehe, I would probably be more inclined to take a ...Hehe, I would probably be more inclined to take a fail as a legitimately funny joke. I've only ever spoken to GM Cho under the dan ceremony or to say hello in passing, so that would've been the most awkward conversation in history!<br /><br />As for the history section, I'd always guessed that either you or Master Løbak had a hand in its writing, actually. ;) We're very lucky down here to have Master Løbak's mentorship, and I've noticed over the years that his explanation of TKD history has also drifted further towards what you describe above. Jon Karlsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760340078774101449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-36629514453366633062016-12-15T02:34:24.058+01:002016-12-15T02:34:24.058+01:00So, if we are studying karate texts and taekwondo ...So, if we are studying karate texts and taekwondo high kicks are just for show, then why not just practice karate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-55715028292808573342016-12-09T08:34:55.517+01:002016-12-09T08:34:55.517+01:00Let me know if you do that, I'm planning on do...Let me know if you do that, I'm planning on doing that when I grade. I've talked a lot with gm Cho about history and he is on board with the real one and has been for a long time. If they flunked you because of the history answer simply call him and get a second opinion:-P in the Poomsae book of ttu you will find a much less "propogandic" history (but it still caters a little to the propoganda). Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-20771296115337550262016-12-09T08:31:40.134+01:002016-12-09T08:31:40.134+01:00Yeah I did not go into details about the Kwan. Th...Yeah I did not go into details about the Kwan. The point I was making was simply that if you trace any Taekwondo lineage back long enough you will end up in one of the Kwan:-) my own teacher has a lineage back to Ji Do Kwan for instance.Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-12697467094350268572016-12-09T08:29:03.528+01:002016-12-09T08:29:03.528+01:00You're completely right. This post was written...You're completely right. This post was written purely from memory in one go. The point I'm making remains: no one "stole" the name, it was given by gm Choi, rejected and then it was given again and only through political lobbying did the rest agree to the term. Thanks for setting the record straight though:-) Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-38243009876620291202016-12-09T08:23:59.804+01:002016-12-09T08:23:59.804+01:00It's problematic if you view Taekwondo as a ge...It's problematic if you view Taekwondo as a generic umbrella term for Korean striking arts;-) we've discussed this at length in the study group:-)Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-91288946048460254442016-12-09T08:22:49.653+01:002016-12-09T08:22:49.653+01:00I don't think we can ignore this. People who p...I don't think we can ignore this. People who purport themselves to be an authority or expert say these things and spread it like wildfire. This again makes people not to explore this area of Taekwondo as they believe it does not exist. This again leads to the extinction of these methods. Sometimes people need to be shown straight from the sources themselves before they can believe it. Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-26991597589281868622016-12-09T02:32:57.787+01:002016-12-09T02:32:57.787+01:00"Modern Taekwondo is a mix of several differe..."Modern Taekwondo is a mix of several different Karate styles gathered in Japan, and some minor Chinese influence through a few individuals, coupled with the aforementioned collective memory of native martial arts kicking tendency."<br /><br />Fantastic summary. If I ever grade further, I might just write this if I get the history part on the written test -- maybe add on a paragraph on how government and private agenda have shaped taekwondo for the hell of it. <br /><br />I bet the feedback would be interesting!Jon Karlsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760340078774101449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-10790241188053069652016-12-06T07:36:38.937+01:002016-12-06T07:36:38.937+01:00My last hair splitting I would like to do is that ...My last hair splitting I would like to do is that it is common to define the original Kwans as the ones that opened before the Korean Civil War broke out with an all out invasion by the communists in the north on June 25, 1950. This then gives us only 5, even though there were of course 9 Kwans that were retired, numbered and rolled into the KKW in August of 1978. <br />The 5 Original Kwans that opened prior to 1950 are:<br />Song Moo Kwan<br />Chung Do Hwe<br />Chosun Yun Moo Kwan<br />YMCA Kwon Bup Bu<br />Moo Duk Kwan<br />After the fighting ceased in July 1953, we see the Kwans reorganizing, with 3 Kwans now being headed by new Directors and under new names. Some look at the growth to 9 from splits or branches of the Original Five. For instance the YMCA Kwon Bup Bu had 2nd generation leaders, (the students of Kwan founder or those who first studied abroad), become the Chang Moo Kwan and the Kang Duk Won. The Chosun Yun Moo Kwan became the JiDoKwan, led by Dr. Yoon, a first generation who studied in Japan as the 2nd Director and the Han Moo Kwan, led by a 2nd generation student. The Kwan founded by GM Lee Won-Kuk was now run by his student, 2nd generation leader GM Son Duk-Sung as the Director. Splitting from the Chung Do Kwan was the Jung Do Kwan, led by another student of Kwan founder GM Lee, a 2nd generation leader named Lee Yong-Woo. <br />This brings the total to 8, with the Oh Do Kwan, founded by General Choi Hong-Hi, as the Military Kwan. General Choi a 1st generation Kwan founder, studied in Japan. Some look at the Oh Do Kwan as an annex Kwan of the Chung Do Kwan, as it was staffed mostly by instructors from there and General Choi was their Honorary Director. <br />georgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-16556141507190572422016-12-06T07:32:22.234+01:002016-12-06T07:32:22.234+01:00"The name Taekwondo was "given" to ..."The name Taekwondo was "given" to the KTA (Korean Tang Su Do Association, into Korean Tae Su Do Association and then Korean Taekwondo Association) by Choi Hong Hi twice"-<br /><br />I do not believe the name was given to the Tang Su Do Association. It was first used in the ODK and then given to the CDK, as General Choi was the Honorary Director. Then 4 years later it was given to the KTA that General Choi formed on Sept. 3, 1959. It was rejected yet again by Sept. 1961, when the civilians first used their new compromise name of Tae SOO Do, as they did not want to use the name TKD, as that was what Gen. Choi was doing. They only reluctantly accepted the TKD name after the intense lobbying of General Choi in 1965. Even after General Choi was forced out and Dr. Kim Un-Yong came intomthe scene, they wanted to reject it again. But Dr. Kim saw the benefit of keeping it, as TKD was already introduced around the world and taking hold in several places.<br />georgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-32108174404655550342016-12-06T07:23:35.170+01:002016-12-06T07:23:35.170+01:00" - "Original Taekwondo" is also a ..." - "Original Taekwondo" is also a problematic term, but in later years I have come to support noted Taekwondo historian George Vitale that "Original Taekwondo" should be preserved to be Oh Do Kwan Taekwondo. Simply because they used the name first, not because of age or content of the system." -<br /><br />I do not think the term original should be seen as problematic. It is accurate and it is a proper use of the word, according to correct English. It may be problematic to some who may see it as beating their side to something. <br />As to the age, of someone uses the name earlier, then they can indeed be seen as somewhat older.<br />Finally with respect to content. We must understand that they all were basically doing rudimentary karate. So when the new name TKD was conceived by General Choi Hong-Hi and applied to what he was developing, it must be noted that it coincided with the introduction of the first 2 Korean TKD Patterns. This was the start of the Original TKD, or the KMA of S.D. that was being developed in the ROK Army.<br />georgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-91985835071400491622016-12-06T07:15:46.887+01:002016-12-06T07:15:46.887+01:00"No artificial limiting factors: "Pure T..."No artificial limiting factors: "Pure Taekwondo does not include throws or grappling", "original Taekwondo did not contain joing locks they came later from Hapkido", Choi Hong Hi never taught grappling so I do not teach any either", "My teacher never taugh throws or break falling so I do not either", "Only ITF Taekwon-Do is true Taekwon-Do, the others simply copied the name" etc." -<br /><br />I would ignore this type of ridiculous dribble, as it is apparently spread by those with artificial brains that have limited capacity to think, LOL!<br />george<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-18160987769372037812016-12-05T19:39:10.876+01:002016-12-05T19:39:10.876+01:00Thank you for so wonderful feedback:-)Thank you for so wonderful feedback:-)Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-51959023329413618312016-12-05T12:18:05.647+01:002016-12-05T12:18:05.647+01:00Nice article!! Enjoyed reading it.Nice article!! Enjoyed reading it.John Correljéhttp://www.tangsoodochonkyong.nlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-53810078305817852792016-12-03T14:38:29.179+01:002016-12-03T14:38:29.179+01:00Thanks:-)Thanks:-)Ørjan Nilsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506123119682274818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7969550358686428094.post-17170709643860582322016-12-02T19:56:33.465+01:002016-12-02T19:56:33.465+01:00Congratulations!! Excellent post.Congratulations!! Excellent post.miguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07942727784303872135noreply@blogger.com